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 What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?

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Colton's Gameplay
Colton's awesome and I want him to win!
10%
 10% [ 1 ]
Colton's playing a good game, Colton FTW!
10%
 10% [ 1 ]
Colton's gameplay is shakey, but still Colton FTW
30%
 30% [ 3 ]
Colton's gameplay is not as good as I thought it would be
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Colton's game is weak as hell, I could care less I'm rooting for someone else
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Colton's game sucks ass! He's going to over play it!
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Whether he sucks or not I want Colton to win simply because he's a caller and listener of BBAD Radio!
50%
 50% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 10
 

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Erika
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:04 am

Would you guys get a room already!

Regardless if you like him or not he is playing a game that might not take him to the final 3 but he is playing the game. I am not even overly impressed with his game but he's playing it unlike some others. He is the stand out of this season. He will be one of the few you remember for this season and I'm not even talking about the racist remarks.
There is no reason in the wold why he should be going to all of these tribal councils with that "hidden" immunity idol and no one is writing his name down? No one is trying to flush that idol out? No, rather than trying to flush that idol out that he openly admitted to having very smugly to all of the men. The men instead kowtow to him. So now he is on the tribe of Misfits and again they kowtow to him.
Sure he isn't doing shit around camp. But at the end of the day who is smarter someone like Colton who is trying to position himself with his new tribe maters or the other men who are worrying about fixing the shelter and gathering wood.
Jonas seems very proud to say "yeah I'll be Colton's bitch"
None of these guys are looking to oust Colton.
He wasn't even good at the challenge. Why didn't they want to rally the votes to flush that idol and get rid of the dead weight... nope they don't do that, they do what Colton wants and what Colton sees as a good game move for himself.

With the tribe swap it didn't turn out to be a bad game move for Colton to get rid of Bill. The other guys never should have agreed to get rid of Bill because Colton was the only one to have benefited from that.
He's by far not playing the worst game in this season and certainly not in Survivor history.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:54 am

Erika wrote:

Sure he isn't doing shit around camp. But at the end of the day who is smarter someone like Colton who is trying to position himself with his new tribe maters or the other men who are worrying about fixing the shelter and gathering wood.

The person who is getting along with others and doing things to ingratiate him/herself is always smarter. This is a game of social strategy and the point is not just to get to the end but to get people to vote for you. Colton will have a difficult time doing that and it's all because of his own bad game play.

Erika wrote:

With the tribe swap it didn't turn out to be a bad game move for Colton to get rid of Bill.

It is never a good idea to give up immunity your tribe has already won. Come on, that's obvious.

I can't give Colton credit for "cleaning up" a mess HE created. Think about this: which would have been easier/smarter? Giving up immunity, and voting out someone on your own tribe or simply, you know...NOT alienating that person to begin with? Bill seemed like a pretty decent guy and if Colton hadn't been blinded by bigotry and smugness, he could've easily brought Bill into the fold and not have to risk going to TC. If Bill was a threat to Colton it's only because Colton made him a threat by completely alienating him. So no, he doesn't get credit for eliminating that threat when he could've just not created the threat to begin with.

Erika wrote:
The men instead kowtow to him.

I wouldn't read too much into that this early in the game. Players rarely want to rock the boat this early and letting Colton think he's running the show just puts a larger target on his back for later on. Southernboy mentioned Russell and it's a good comparison. Remember a lot of viewers were dismayed that no one was getting rid of Russell, but it turned out Natalie/Mick and Parvati/Sandra were smart enough to realize he'd make a good Final 3 goat because he could never get the jury votes to win. They would literally be like, "Oh yeah you're a mastermind Russell!" to his face and then turn around roll their eyes, and call him a troll. Time will tell if something similar is happening with Colton.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:12 am

EVERYTHING Nikolas said above! clap

Colton to the non-existent please.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:55 am

I agree you should get along with others. Like I said I'm not overly thrilled with Colton's gameplay nor do I think it's without flaws. I do appreciate that he is playing.
By the way where did being a nice guy get Bill?
Also, Colton went and begged for an Idol if the girl's came across one and because he made some sort of an attempt early on with the girls he was the first choice for Sabrina to give the idol to. I believe him getting that idol gave him a little bit of hope that he might have a chance within his tribe thus moving him forward when he seemed like an obvious choice to be the first one voted off his initial tribe.
Colton is at least making moves to vote off what he appears to be a threat to him and positioning himself deep in the game. Rather than kowtowing and going along with things and letting the chips fall where they may. Leaving your own life in the game up in the air and with someone one they have said is out of control and making really risky decisions.

I don't agree with the decision to go to tribal when you have immunity. It's insane but what's more insane is that all those guys agreed to it. All it would have took was 1 guy to not agree to it and they wouldn't have gone to tribal. Why didn't one of those guys step up and be a voice of reason? They were afraid.
Just like I don't think it's a good idea to give up safety to go to tribal I think it's even a dumber decision to leave a "hidden" immunity idol out there and not try and flush it out. But I guess everyone just wants to let these things go on so as to not rock any boats? C'mon he has them all under his thumb.
Sure things could change. I know this isn't going to be like this for the remainder of the game. He's being pro-active with his position in the game rather to leave it to chance with someone else calling the shots. I tend to like those type of players. I'm not a huge fan of the wallflower players.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:36 am

I think that Erika makes some great points. I agree. Say what you want, but at least the boy is playing. Nik, you are right about the social aspects of the game, but I don't think Colton has made that many enemies YET, has he?
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:58 am

Exactly Mark! I don't see anyone seeing him as an enemy. Where are the talks of ousting him on his Queen ass? That's right they're not happening, so are we suppose to believe everyone is just quietly plotting his demise? Even when the tribes got switched up, the girls were embracing Colton. I would like to think for their sakes it's a case of keep your friends close and you're enemies closer but sadly for them I don't believe that to be the case.
It's too easy to rag on Colton's gameplay because of the way he's behaved and the comments he's made. But I'm speaking specifically to his gameplay. If we were to discuss the other's gameplay there really isn't all that much to talk about with them all collectively. If Colton wasn't on this season it would be boring. Yes I can see why people love to hate on him, it's not like he hasn't given reasons to do so. But to give him no credit?
And as a fan of the show first and foremost I look for compelling characters that stand out and do something and in the process make it entertaining for us viewers. How frustrating it is to watch a boring season with nobody having anything much to add. So what if Jonas builds a awesome shelter, and spends half of his days collecting wood and getting water....what do I care? Could Colton be helping around at camp? sure I would think so but again oddly enough it doesn't seem to be affecting him so screw it let them do it.
Survivor being a lot like Big Brother you can't get too comfortable because at any moment a twist can be thrown your way and could screw everything up for you. Colton continues to survive when he should be gone. Makes no sense to me why they would allow him to call the shots and leave that "hidden" immunity idol in play that only protects Colton. Get rid of it!
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:32 pm

Erika wrote:

Colton is at least making moves to vote off what he appears to be a threat to him

I repeat: Bill was not a threat up until Colton turned him into a threat unnecessarily by alienating him, being rude to him etc. Colton basically created that huge mess and was then all, "I'm a great mastermind because I cleaned it up!" Remember Ronnie on BB11? He was also a super-fan who talked about being a diabolical mastermind more than actually being one, ran around stirring shit up for no reason, and eliminated a threat who wasn't a threat to him until he made her one (Laura), and NO ONE believed he was a great player.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. To me, playing hard isn't a virtue if you're playing poorly. And I absolutely believe Colton is playing poorly. Sure you can run around a soccer field and scream and get everyone to notice you, and proclaim yourself a great player because you defended your goalpost (even though you let the other team get the ball in the first place) but it all means ZIP if you can't actually score a goal.


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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:38 pm

On to a less fraught topic, what do you guys you think of Kim? She hasn't been featured at all before but her scenes this week clearly had nothing to do with this week's narrative, so...foreshadowing things to come? I love how she found the idol, only told her closest ally, made sure she was good with the guys so she's safe whichever side comes out on top post-merge, and then instructed Chelsea to not let the others see them as a pair. And all of it without running around, mugging for the camera and proclaiming herself a genius. I was impressed with her.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:29 pm

Bill was on the opposite alliance. He was not apart of the misfit alliance. Obviously someone in Bill's alliance had to go and he chose Bill because he liked him the least. So you can't say he wasn't a threat to Colton. The threat is if you aren't with me you're against me. Yes Colton took it to another level it didn't need to go but they weren't playing together.
I have been very critical of Colton's game and I'm not blindly giving him credit just because he is one of our callers. But I guess regardless of what I say it will be percieved as sticking up for him which I don't know why since I have been critical of him as well. I'm stating my opinions just as anyone else is.
I don't even think Colton is playing a hard. I think his game has been sloppy but again somehow is making moves to further himself. While others seem to be quite content to leave their fate in his hands. If Colton's playing a poor game what does it say for the majority out there that go along with it.
As far as Kim, she will probably go far. I forsee their tribe going on a winning streak and knocking out the misfit alliance. Then I'm sure when they are all playing for themselves that the guys will start targeting one another and Kim, and Kat especially I see going far. She won't be a threat and will sneak in the bottom 4
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:33 pm

Erika wrote:
Bill was on the opposite alliance. He was not apart of the misfit alliance. Obviously someone in Bill's alliance had to go and he chose Bill because he liked him the least.

But Erika, no it WASN'T "obvious" that someone in Bill's alliance had to go because the men won immunity that week! Remember? Had they lost immunity, then yeah it would be natural to say, OK who should we vote out from the people not in our alliance? Which is why you DON'T give up Tribal Immunity because you never know when you'll lose a challenge and you can just vote out someone who's not in your alliance at that point.

The whole defense of Colton targeting Bill is that Bill was such a specific threat to Colton that he had to be eliminated right away even if it meant giving up immunity. And that's obviously hogwash because Bill only became a specific threat to Colton when Colton made him one.

Using that criteria, anytime a majority alliance is formed on a tribe, they should just throw immunity and eliminate the people who aren't in their alliance. That's basically what you're saying if you endorse what Colton did as good game-play.

Erika wrote:
I have been very critical of Colton's game and I'm not blindly giving him credit just because he is one of our callers. But I guess regardless of what I say it will be percieved as sticking up for him which I don't know why since I have been critical of him as well. I'm stating my opinions just as anyone else is.

I meant that comment more as a joke (hence the smiley face) but then realized it could be a sore subject, and deleted it. My apologies.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:02 pm

Quote :
Well, I cannot disagree with you, Erika (can I ever?). Alan Alda has a
line in "The Four Seasons" where he says (I am paraphrasing): "When you
see your friends naked, it is hard to eat dinner with them later."


Haha! Love that movie Mark but it was Carol Burnett who said it...lol.

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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:25 pm

So much to say....lol. First of all, LOVED Russel Hantz! He played the game like no one else, got to the finals in back to back seasons and faced bitter jurors who just flat out were butt hurt and GOT IT WRONG! Really? Sandra? No one layed around and did less than her and she sucked at challenges! Clearly Russell should have won his season and then Heros vs villains the next. Winning fan fav back to back seasons for Mr. Hantz in some ways probably meant more to him but no doubt, at least one of those seasons he should have been the sole survivor. OUTWIT, OUTLAST, OUTPLAY! He did all 3.
As far as this season goes....pffftttt. The challenge annoyed me to no end as we had Leif guarding the goal opposite Michael who felt the need to whip the little guy into the water several times. I found a new admiration for Leif last night as he fought hard core in a challenge where he was completely over matched. I hope he makes it very deep into the game and as of right now he would have my vote (if we had to vote today) as fan fav. I like how he is fighting now.
I know the majority of the people watching survivor cannot wait for Colton to leave....what fun will it be without a villain? Then we can sit back and watch the bowl of oatmeal thats left...lol. Quite frankly, the tribes are soooo unevenly stacked, my prediction at this point is they leave one by one until the merge, then whomever is left will be picked off by the Olympic team and then one of those 7 people will win the prize...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:05 pm

Lorraine, getting people to vote for you is part of the game. That's what I love about Big Brother and Survivor. It's not just about random competitions and just getting to the end. Figuring out the personalities involved, and what someone will do with their vote is the beautiful/mysterious part of the game. And it's a crucial part. Without it, Survivor and Big Brother would be just like those MTV Real World/Road Rules Challenges which are only about winning challenges and bulldozing your way into the finals. Survivor is a different (more interesting) game.

Russell played to get to the end but he did NOT play to win i.e. he didn't do anything all season long TWO SEASONS IN A ROW to get people to like him and want to vote for him. Bullying people, being unpleasant and unwashed, and constantly telling everyone that you're the best player ever is not the way to get people to give you a million dollars. He lacked self-awareness and didn't know how to manage the jury members before and after they were sent to the jury. Parvati and Sandra were better at that, which is why Parvati beat Amanda and why Sandra won twice. You can't just say two separate groups of multiple people were bitter. And even if they were, so what? That's the game and anyone playing should anticipate that and manage their game accordingly. Russell clearly has a problem wooing people and that's a critical flaw in a game like this.

There's no rule that says jury members are obligated to vote for the person who "played the hardest" (whatever that means). The only criteria for the jury is that you must vote for one of the finalists to win, and you can vote for whatever reason you want. And in general (with very few exceptions) people vote for who they like more or who they hate less. That's just human nature. They didn't fail to give him the win, he failed to get them to give him the win. That's how this game works. It's not a race, it's a game of social strategy.

I can see we're just going to have to agree to disagree haha. If you really think Russell is a great player then no one can accuse you of showing favoritism to Colton because he is playing exactly the same way. All flash, no substance.


Last edited by Nikolas on Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:21 pm

I agree with you Nikolas Russell played to get to the end, he was good at that but you do have to be able to sell yourself when it comes to the jury. A good sales person could pull it off regardless of what they had to do to get there. Regardless if they backstab, lie cheat and everything else that would piss people off. Russell didn't quite seem to grasp that. His 1st season the jury was very bitter and they were not votes for Natalie, they were anti-Russell votes. With that being said Natalie didn't win over Russell because she was a mastermind who played anyone. She didn't outwit, or outplay anyone. She got lucky because her votes were votes against Russell. You can't seriously say she deserved to win it over Russell if we are going with the elements of outwit, outlast and outplay. A lot of times you have winners just like Natalie White who win out of coat-tailing riding and luck. Which is one of the things I hate about Survivor and Big Brother.

Sometimes you get a jury that's bitter and sometimes you don't, luck of the draw.

I guess with all the Russell and Colton comparisons, does this mean we'll be seeing Colton in an upcoming season?



I don't even know why Colton's game and Russell's keep getting compared, they didn't not play alike at all. I could see if you compared their strong characters but that's pretty much where it ends. They definitely did not play the same game at all.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:21 pm

Nikolas wrote:
Lorraine, getting people to vote for you is part of the game. That's what I love about Big Brother and Survivor. It's not just about stupid competitions and just getting to the end. Figuring out the personalities involved, and what someone will do with their vote is the beautiful/mysterious part of the game. And it's a crucial part. Without it, Survivor and Big Brother would be just like those stupid MTV Real World/Road Rules Challenges which are just about winning challenges and bulldozing your way into the finals. Which is fine if you like that kind of thing but Survivor is a different (more interesting) game.

Russell played to get to the end but he did NOT play to win i.e. he didn't do anything all season long TWO SEASONS IN A ROW to get people to like him and want to vote for him. Bullying people, being unpleasant and unwashed, and constantly telling everyone that you're the best player ever is not the way to get people to give you a million dollars. He lacked self-awareness and didn't know how to manage the jury members before and after they were sent to the jury. Parvati and Sandra were better at that, which is why Parvati beat Amanda and why Sandra won twice. You can't just say two separate groups of multiple people were bitter. And even if they were, so what? That's the game and anyone playing should anticipate that and manage their game accordingly. Russell clearly has a problem wooing people and that's a critical flaw in a game like this.

There's no rule that says jury members are obligated to vote for the person who "played the hardest (whatever that means) to get to the end." The only criteria for the jury is that you must vote for one of the finalists to win, and you can vote for whatever reason you want. And in general (with very few exceptions) people vote for who they like more or who they hate less. That's just human nature. They didn't fail to give him the win, he failed to get them to give him the win. That's how this game works. It's not a race, it's a game of social strategy.

I can see we're just going to have to agree to disagree haha. If you really think Russell is a great player then no one can accuse you of showing favoritism to Colton because he is playing exactly the same way. All flash, no substance.


Hmmmm I fail to see the comparison between Russell and Colton. How did my fandom for Russell get turned into favoritism for Colton scratch So over this argument and defending what I have to say about a show that I have watched since season 1. But am I safe to assume that you think I am showing favoritism to Colton?

We will agree to disagree as I KNOW that RH is a great player. Its funny to me because when someone "nice" or "sweet" gets to the end and wins the money I so often hear "well they made it to the end so they deserve it" or "hey, whatever gets you to the end". Yet when someone "unlikable" makes it the end the same consideration is not given. To not give him any credit at all just blows my mind. RH made rock solid alliances and stayed loyal to those alliances until the inevitable happens and someone has to go. (Jaisson). Mick and Natalie didnt choose Russell to go to the end with, It was Russell doing the choosing which is why Jaisson had to go. The jury was bitter. Lets also not forget that immediately after his season concluded filming, he was asked back and stayed in Samoa to film the next season of H vs V with virtually no break in between. That HAD to be tough.

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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:29 pm

Lorraine wrote:
Nikolas wrote:
Lorraine, getting people to vote for you is part of the game. That's what I love about Big Brother and Survivor. It's not just about stupid competitions and just getting to the end. Figuring out the personalities involved, and what someone will do with their vote is the beautiful/mysterious part of the game. And it's a crucial part. Without it, Survivor and Big Brother would be just like those stupid MTV Real World/Road Rules Challenges which are just about winning challenges and bulldozing your way into the finals. Which is fine if you like that kind of thing but Survivor is a different (more interesting) game.

Russell played to get to the end but he did NOT play to win i.e. he didn't do anything all season long TWO SEASONS IN A ROW to get people to like him and want to vote for him. Bullying people, being unpleasant and unwashed, and constantly telling everyone that you're the best player ever is not the way to get people to give you a million dollars. He lacked self-awareness and didn't know how to manage the jury members before and after they were sent to the jury. Parvati and Sandra were better at that, which is why Parvati beat Amanda and why Sandra won twice. You can't just say two separate groups of multiple people were bitter. And even if they were, so what? That's the game and anyone playing should anticipate that and manage their game accordingly. Russell clearly has a problem wooing people and that's a critical flaw in a game like this.

There's no rule that says jury members are obligated to vote for the person who "played the hardest (whatever that means) to get to the end." The only criteria for the jury is that you must vote for one of the finalists to win, and you can vote for whatever reason you want. And in general (with very few exceptions) people vote for who they like more or who they hate less. That's just human nature. They didn't fail to give him the win, he failed to get them to give him the win. That's how this game works. It's not a race, it's a game of social strategy.

I can see we're just going to have to agree to disagree haha. If you really think Russell is a great player then no one can accuse you of showing favoritism to Colton because he is playing exactly the same way. All flash, no substance.


Hmmmm I fail to see the comparison between Russell and Colton. How did my fandom for Russell get turned into favoritism for Colton scratch So over this argument and defending what I have to say about a show that I have watched since season 1. But am I safe to assume that you think I am showing favoritism to Colton?

We will agree to disagree as I KNOW that RH is a great player. Its funny to me because when someone "nice" or "sweet" gets to the end and wins the money I so often hear "well they made it to the end so they deserve it" or "hey, whatever gets you to the end". Yet when someone "unlikable" makes it the end the same consideration is not given. To not give him any credit at all just blows my mind. RH made rock solid alliances and stayed loyal to those alliances until the inevitable happens and someone has to go. (Jaisson). Mick and Natalie didnt choose Russell to go to the end with, It was Russell doing the choosing which is why Jaisson had to go. The jury was bitter. Lets also not forget that immediately after his season concluded filming, he was asked back and stayed in Samoa to film the next season of H vs V with virtually no break in between. That HAD to be tough.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say yes it's safe to assume you are showing favortism to Colton because you didn't get a smiley face! LOL
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:59 pm

Sorry that I misquoted, Lorraine, it's been a long time since I have seen that film. A LONG TIME! Thanks for correcting it.

I have to agree with Lorraine about Russell. I thought it was ridiculous that he did so poorly in the vote tallies both times (especially, the second time when they knew who he was and how he played and he still out played them!). To not acknowledge that he outwitted them was pure bitterness (in my opinion).

I do not see a valid comparison between Colton and Russell either (except that they both may be disliked by a large number of viewers!).
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:32 pm

Lorraine wrote:

How did my fandom for Russell get turned into favoritism for Colton scratch So over this argument and defending what I have to say about a show that I have watched since season 1. But am I safe to assume that you think I am showing favoritism to Colton?

You misread me Lorraine. You thought I said the opposite of what I said LOL. I was actually giving you credit for being consistent. I said if you think Russell is a great player then you're NOT just showing favoritism towards Colton because in my mind, they're cut from the same cloth. In other words, even if Colton weren't a member of this board, you'd probably still be saying the same thing about him as you are now since you also liked Russell.

ChicagoMark wrote:

I have to agree with Lorraine about Russell. I thought it was ridiculous that he did so poorly in the vote tallies both times (especially, the second time when they knew who he was and how he played and he still out played them!). To not acknowledge that he outwitted them was pure bitterness (in my opinion).

He did so poorly in the vote tallies because he lacks self-awareness about how he is perceived by others and fails to construct his game accordingly to get the majority of votes. Like I said before, even if two separate juries of multiple people were all bitter (which...is a stretch to say the least) so what? That's the game. You have to figure out each juror's personality and woo them in such a way that they will vote for you over the next guy. If it wasn't about that, then this would be a very different game. It could be a game about just winning your way to the end like The Amazing Race, or it could be a game where a group of judges decides the winner like Project Runway. But it's not. It's decided by a jury of people who played with you and is allowed to vote any criteria they want. And yes it is a popularity contest because in a democratic vote, by definition, the most popular candidate wins.

It's not like Russell was playing a different game and they changed the rules on him. He knew this going into it and failed to incorporate it into his strategy.

ChicagoMark wrote:

I do not see a valid comparison between Colton and Russell either (except that they both may be disliked by a large number of viewers!).

This is subjective of course but they're both all flash no substance. They both talk a lot about being masterminds instead of actually being them. They both run around making "big" moves rather than smart moves and neither one has an eye toward the end game i.e. jury votes. That they're both unlikable is not irrelevant since likability is critical in a game like this.



Last edited by Nikolas on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:27 pm; edited 8 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:40 pm

Erika wrote:
With that being said Natalie didn't win over Russell because she was a mastermind who played anyone. She didn't outwit, or outplay anyone. She got lucky because her votes were votes against Russell. You can't seriously say she deserved to win it over Russell if we are going with the elements of outwit, outlast and outplay.

I realize this is where I differ from a lot of Survivor and BB fans but yes, I do think Natalie deserved to win, simply because if you can get to the end and get the majority of votes, then you deserve to win. In my opinion, these games of social strategy are "pure" games in the sense that the winners are pretty much always deserving because it's not a talent competition or something subjective. You only have to do two things to win: get to the end, and get the most votes. However you do that is irrelevant. I'll give Russell credit for doing half of it (getting to the end) but he's ultimately NOT a great player because he didn't do anything about the other half (getting jury votes). And that latter half isn't just about your performance at the Final Tribal Council. It's how you socialized with those people all season long. Clearly that's not a skill Russell possesses.

Now just to be clear, this doesn't mean that I LIKE every winner. I make a distinction between personal favorites and "deserving" winners. By that I mean in these games, if you win, you deserve to win whether or not I like you personally. There are people who come very close and I can say they probably deserved it too. That's the difference for example between Boston Rob on All Stars and Russell on Samoa/Fans vs Favorites. Boston Rob lost to Amber but he only lost by one vote. He played just as aggressively as Russell, but he also knew how to woo voters. The difference between losing by one vote (like Rob) and only getting one vote in two seasons (like Russell) is the difference between "could've won" (and therefore "deserving") and "could never really win" (and therefore "undeserving").

But again, this is just how I see it. I'm aware that I have a "simpler" view of the game and that most Survivor/BB fans don't see it this way. big smile
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:57 pm

@Nikolas, MARRY ME PLEASE (unless you're under-aged). I agree with everything you wrote. You made me think about Survivor in a way I hadn't before. That there are no undeserving winners, just winners we like and dislike for personal reasons. That's a very logical and articulate position.

I'll give Russell more credit than Colton because Russell would never give up immunity, and still made it to the end, which I doubt Colton will. Neither is a great player for all the reasons Nikolas listed, but Colton is much worse.

@Erika, Colton is one of the worst players ever because he gave up immunity. Even Dreamz knew not to do that and that dude is an idiot. And no, the vast majority of viewers don't "love to hate" Colton. We just plain hate him and want him off our screen. He's not a lovable villain, and he's certainly not entertaining.

Lord have mercy I hope they DON'T bring Colton back! Forget Survivor, Colton needs to star in a new Lifetime movie Not Without My Training Bra.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:36 pm

southernboy wrote:
@Nikolas, MARRY ME PLEASE (unless you're under-aged).

Haha. I'm 22 actually. And check the avatar, I'm already married to a Warbler!

southernboy wrote:
I agree with everything you wrote. You made me think about Survivor in a way I hadn't before. That there are no undeserving winners, just winners we like and dislike for personal reasons. That's a very logical and articulate position.

Thanks. I enjoy your posts too. I really enjoy a lot of people here. Erika and Lorraine are sweethearts and were super welcoming when I started calling in last year. And the ones you mentioned earlier, like Chicago Mark and Smooches are always great to read/listen to. Even when we disagree, this is still a fun place for Big Brother/Survivor talk.

southernboy wrote:

Lord have mercy I hope they DON'T bring Colton back! Forget Survivor, Colton needs to star in a new Lifetime movie Not Without My Training Bra.

You are BAD! Jaw dropper

But I think you better accept the fact that Colton will be back. Love him or hate him, people are talking about Survivor like crazy this season because of him and they've already brought back villains like Russell and Coach multiple times, so Colton is guaranteed an offer to return.

Here's a present for you Southernboy:


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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:44 pm

22? 22! I have shoes older than you, Nik.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:50 pm

*Please note that the previous comment was exaggerated for effect. No, I do not own and still wear 22 year old shoes*

This has been a public service announcement. We now return you to the discussion of Colton's gameplay, already in progress....
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:15 am

Nikolas wrote:

Haha. I'm 22 actually. And check the avatar, I'm already married to a Warbler!

OMFG you're a BABY! I was just kidding, I didn't think you were really that young! Wow. Now I feel both old and like a dirty old man for my comment (I'm 36). How are you so articulate and level-headed at 22?! Please don't tell me everyone on this board was born in the 90's because that would be seriously depressing.

ChicagoMark wrote:
22? 22! I have shoes older than you, Nik.

Bless you! smile


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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:18 am

Oh yeah and that video Nikolas posted is the best Big Brother moment of all time in my book. I know everyone talks about "Bye Bye Bitches" (and with good reason) but to me the moment in that video just before it is even more awesome. My girl winning a nail-biter competition, Howie and Rachel going nuts, "Gimme that key bitch!", Janelle giving Jenn the finger, and "Pack your bags Jenny!" Fucking awesome.

Will we never see the likes of her again on these shows?

BTW Mark, is that you in your avatar? And if so, how did you get involved with the NoH8 campaign? I thought only celebs did those pics.
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PostSubject: Re: What Are Your Thoughts on Colton's Gameplay thus far?    Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:10 am

southernboy wrote:

OMFG you're a BABY! I was just kidding, I didn't think you were really that young! Wow. Now I feel both old and like a dirty old man for my comment (I'm 36). How are you so articulate and level-headed at 22?!

Haha thanks again. I can own articulate, but I'm not sure about level headed! smile

I'm curious about Chicago Mark's avatar too.
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